Julio Martínez Mesanza, the National Poetry Prize winner, praised by Loquillo: "There has been a great deal of intellectual sheepishness regarding the Black Legend of Spain."

It happened in 2014. Two friends meet. They chat. Probably, they toast. The poet reveals to the musician a book that is not just a book. It is a small miracle in contemporary Spanish literature. It is an echo of the adventure to which its author has dedicated more than 15 years. It is, above all, a vibrant legacy that refuses to become a mausoleum.

The friends are named Luis Alberto de Cuenca and José María Sanz , Loquillo. The book that the former encourages the latter to one day turn into a record is titled Europa . It's published by a publishing house that's only remembered today in secondhand bookstores. It includes verses that hark back to the time of the Crusades and Greco-Roman antiquity. They seem dictated by an oracle without fever. Values. Tradition. Conflict . They invite us to travel as far as we can: into our inner selves.

" Reading it blew my mind . I immediately called Gabriel Sopeña to see if he was interested in the project and to adapt the chosen texts to different music," admits Loquillo from 2025. " I thought it was a very original and unique voice because it strayed from all the clichés of modernity and, for that very reason, it was more modern than any other, " adds De Cuenca, who is also the editor of the original work, also in the present tense. "I also liked the philosophy underlying those poems. The world of the Crusades and the Middle Ages had always fascinated me. In a way, Julio presented himself as a hermeneut of the chivalric-medieval."

Europa - the album - has just been released in LP format on a limited edition white vinyl (Warner). Europa - the book - reclaims the voice of the man who first gave it to the world in 1983 and three more times until 1990. Until it became—and had been from the very beginning—a cult work. By allusion, Julio Martínez Mesanza .

" I'm the first to be surprised that these poems now have something to say . I don't know what to attribute it to. There's a lot of chance in the way they reach readers," he confesses. "Sometimes, unconsciously, you hit certain notes. I think most poets are better than me. I'm convinced most are also more intelligent. And I can assure you that most work harder: I have a shorter body of work; I haven't written with intensity. Why then, without having put in more than the rest, have I connected with a very small but loyal audience? It's a mystery. Although it may sound strange to modern ears, I attribute it to a gift that comes from God . Some are granted the greatest of gifts: that of being a good person. Others, artisans, the gift of creating wonders with their hands, something I envy. Me, the gift of writing poems that for some reason reach the reader. I'm grateful for that."

The Loquillo revolt.

• Drafting: ALBERTO ROJAS (Text)
• Drafting: ALBERTO DI LOLLI (Photographs) Madrid

"I never imagined so many people would love me. My mentality has always been to fight the world."

Martínez Mesanza won the National Poetry Prize in 2017, but he's still considered a secret poet. He's something of a Spanish Salinger of the blank hendecasyllable, perhaps due to his limited public exposure and near media invisibility. You can find more analyses of his work online than interviews. " Poets must have the same dimension as poetry in society, and this is very limited . That said, I haven't been in much demand either..." explains the man who, at almost 70 years old (his birthday is in September), seems to have wasted several lifetimes.

He graduated in Italian Philology from the Complutense University of the Transition after beginning Philosophy studies. He translated Dante, Moravia, Sannazaro, and Foscolo. He advised Siruela whenever a helmet flashed among the letters. He worked in the three great cultural institutions of this country : the relevant Ministry, the Cervantes Institute—he directed the centers in Lisbon, Milan, Tunis, Tel Aviv (in two stages), and Stockholm, and was also academic director of the main headquarters—and the National Library. He is now retired. He reads. He attends some conferences. He watches documentaries on YouTube. He plays chess online. He follows Atleti matches. He smokes. He drinks beer. And he answers for Europa , which he delivered to a printer in Ocaña (Toledo) 40 years ago with just 14 poems. It was the first thing he printed his name on.

In Power is a Tower on Rocks he wrote : "Power has severe scenes/ and relentless silent servants./ Power casts infamy upon the lukewarm/ and does not accept the neutral in its guard .

In After Hattin: 'My armor is of no use to me/ if life denies me your presence/ and I know that my cowardice is useless .

In Ceremony: 'Always prepare for the last fight,/ no matter what you keep fighting after.

Where does your interest in history in its most humanly passionate and warlike sense come from?

From a young age, and up until a certain age, I read much more history than poetry. There were good books at home. There was, for example, Jacques Pirenne's Universal History . I've read about Antiquity and the Middle Ages, but also, and with relish, Greek and Roman historians: Thucydides, Herodotus, Livy, Tacitus... I've sometimes been described as an epic poet, but what lies behind my poetry is history. Writing epic poetry in the 20th century is absurd. Epic poetry consists of long stretches of verse about the founding myths of peoples, and there's none of that in my poems. What there are are elements of epic, like swords, and of what I consider modern epic. I must be one of the few poets who use the chariot or artillery as symbols.

How was the first edition of 'Europe' received?

Good. It didn't get too many reviews, but they were all quite favorable, save for a few lukewarm ones. It helped me appear in quite a few of the anthologies that were published at the time. Back then, if you weren't in any of them, it was bad; I was lucky enough to appear in three or four of the most interesting ones. It was also the time of controversy between the poetry of experience, which speaks of life, and the poetry of silence, which is more reflective. Because of the circles I moved in, I was placed in the former. But my poetry had nothing to do with either of them. Those were very rich years of the first Europa , with poems that continue in the second Europa (1986), published by Renacimiento. In between, the experience of military service, which I did very late, after finishing my studies, at the age of 27.

Where did he do it?

In Pamplona. Military service is a tough experience, but a worthwhile one. In the morning I did the usual chores; in the afternoon, when I was discharged, I was told to take care of the library. I had time to read and write. Several poems that appear in the second edition were written during the military service , such as San Luis , Egisto , and De Amicitia . I had published another in 1983, the first one I was happy with, titled Mueren caballos en combate (Horses Die in Combat ). They sent me to the artillery on horseback, and there it was all mules and horses. I lived with the animals after writing about them. I saw the riders and I was one myself too. That's where San Luis came from. In other words, I'm very grateful to the military service and to Pamplona.

Do harsh times like the present, with wars, viruses, and cries, connect in some way with the spirit of Europe? Or, conversely, do you think your poems help us better understand the times we live in?

They are a reflection of the times we live in, and of all times. The other day I was reading some pages by Joseph de Maistre, the reactionary French philosopher and politician, in which he documented the wars that had been fought from I don't remember which emperor until the French Revolution, which he experienced firsthand. Naturally, we turn our backs on war, because it's terrible. But no matter how much we turn our backs on it, it's there; it's a constant in history. I don't bring anything new to poetry by talking about war. It does serve me as a symbol of a conflict that goes beyond. Even if there isn't a war, we are always in conflict with something. And, above all, we are in conflict with ourselves. That is perhaps the message my poetry conveys, if it conveys any. Right now, everything is war, and many of them don't even appear in the media. People kill each other, and it doesn't always make the news, because they kill each other in distant corners.

Are you interested in the contemporary meaning of war?

A lot. Both in terms of the human and political aspects, its causes, and its technical development. There's an essential book, Storms of Steel , by Ernst Jünger, that describes the industrialization of war. There were warnings of this in the Civil War and the Napoleonic Wars, but in the 20th century it's already happening on a massive scale. All of that interests me. Now, with drones, a large fleet is vulnerable.

Is there poetry in a drone?

I've taken it from the artillery and the tank. I don't know about the drone... Maybe in 20 years someone will find it.

Some people tried to belittle "Europa" by labeling it a war-mongering book. Professor Armando Pego Puigbó notes that it was subjected to some harsh labels. I quote: "As if his poems could be labeled as patriotic, fascist, or retrograde." Were you surprised that they were interpreted politically? Did it affect you in any way?

I didn't want it, although in some ways I expected it. If your poems have that undertone, you know something like this can happen. It's a game you might not have wanted to play, but you've laid your cards on the table. It's true that harsh words were used in the 80s and 90s, when that did have a strong meaning. Now that it's so easy to call myself a fascist or a reactionary, I see that it's no longer just my poetry that's being called a fascist, but half of humanity... No one admits that the criticisms—in this case, political—made of their poetry are fair. I don't think they were. It's a poetry that includes war images, but in which there are the victors, the vanquished, the humble, the proud... They are not poems written to celebrate anyone's triumph. Trevor J. Dadson, the British Hispanist who sadly passed away in 2020 and who dedicated some study to my poetry, saw that at its core it reflected the epic of the vanquished.

Luis Alberto de Cuenca lived near Martínez Mesanza during that campaign. " It outraged me, but it didn't surprise me, seeing how everything in Spain has become so confused and politicized in such a stupid way," he says. Loquillo, looking back, isn't surprised either: " The mercenaries of political correctness are sharpening their knives. They're the same as always ." In the musical adaptation of Europa , in any case, there's barely any military drumming. The author of Cadillac Solitario , Sopeña, and producer Josu García propose a journey through the thousand paths of southern rock. As if the original trip to Athens, Rome, and Jerusalem now ran along Route 66.

Just a few days ago, in his speech when he received the Cervantes Prize, Álvaro Pombo emphasized: "Nowadays, no one fights for their honor, neither for the honor of Spain nor for that of Tato. We have become 'influencers' and hucksters ." Do you share that sentiment?

He was absolutely right about everything. Not only about dueling, but about feeling a bit of Spain, which is seen as something for nostalgic old folks... We should be extremely proud of our history. Even in what can be considered the darkest hours, Spain set a much more positive example than other countries. The conquest [of America], with its errors and violence, was exemplary compared to the conquests carried out by other nations. It's said that the Spanish took the gold, but the gold is there too: in the universities, in the cathedrals and churches... I think of everything that the culture of the viceroyalties gave to Spain in music or poetry, with Sor Juana Inés de la Cruz... I am proud to be Spanish, among other things, for the centuries of America.

Fahmi Alqhai, director of the Seville Early Music Festival, questioned in these pages a few days ago whether the Black Legend is a foreign or indigenous invention.

There's been a great deal of intellectual sheepishness regarding the Black Legend. We've paid too much attention to a couple of foreign propagandists. I can accept that they say this or that was bad, but they can also tell me the good. And then, the bad things about others. It seems we Spaniards have been sinners throughout the world, and that wasn't the case.

In response to Pombo's speech, the King of Spain emphasized: "We are living in uncertain days that call for clarity; difficult days—and for many, disastrous days—that demand kindness; days of confusion that call for truth."

It struck me as not only very accurate, but also very brave. What this time and any other demands is true. We live in rather dangerous times for freedom of expression, and we must have the courage to speak our minds. "Because the truth is bitter, I want to throw it out of my mouth," wrote Quevedo.

Are we living in times of heroes who are victims, of victims who feel like heroes, or neither?

Although we don't see it on a daily basis, there are heroic acts and people who silently lead heroic lives. Unjust victims also deserve the epithet "heroic." But what we're living in is a time of superficial victimhood, unprovoked by any perpetrator. It's become fashionable to be a victim, when a victim is something very serious. It's someone whose life is ripped out. The victim goes to the altar of sacrifice, metaphorically or actually. Too much victimhood leads to wokism .

Martínez Mesanza confesses that, of all his output, he prefers Las Trincheras (Renacimiento, 1996). It marked a turning point in Europe and the fork in his profound lyricism toward the religious. With Gloria (Rialp, 2016), the work that earned him the National Prize, he broadened that range to speak of grace, faith, and merit . In this, too, he is an author who goes against the grain. As in his rejection of metaphor and archaism, even though the landscape of his most celebrated works is dotted with towers.

What impact does writing about the Virgin Mary have in our era?

I don't know. To some readers it must seem terribly strange. To me, it's natural. Virtually all my books contain some Christian allusion or Marian poem. Sometimes I feel like Thucydides, and other times, the Virgin. That said, my poetry isn't confessional, far from it. I also have poems that I think would scandalize some Christians. They're verses that perhaps have faith and hope, but lack charity. What I've never intended to do is write poetry about saints. If I address the Virgin, it's as a sinner, not as a good person, far from it. Besides, I haven't been much of a mystical poet. Mine is, in fact, quite realistic and Castilian, in the sense of touching things.

Has trying to shock at all costs or to be cryptic been a vice of Spanish poetry?

It has been. And also to think that there is depth in the cryptic. All of that is absurd. The deepest philosophy is the clearest.

What compass does poetry offer in 2025?

That has to remain within the personal understanding of each individual. Classical poetry is a cultural asset to which everyone should have access. But once that's been satisfied from an educational point of view, if you don't like poetry, don't bother, it's fine. I don't think poetry changes the world. It can change people, but more their spirits than their inner selves. It can give you enthusiasm at a given moment or, worse still, add more sadness. But this doesn't make you better or worse. Poetry and other artistic activities are full of monsters: look at the Nazis. Undoubtedly, poetry enriches, and being intellectually and emotionally rich is good. But it doesn't change the world. Look, I like Gabriel Celaya, from whom I'm ideologically a world away, but no: poetry isn't a weapon, nor is it loaded with the present or the future.

What is your assessment of the path you have taken and what remains to be done?

One always believes, and in my case I'm sure, that one could have done more. Better, I don't know, but more, yes. At times, I've had too amateur a relationship with poetry. I know I've betrayed the gift I spoke of earlier. Many times I've been a bit indolent and believed it was better to read, watch a game, or have a drink with friends than to write. Along the way, many things will have been lost... There are people who, in their late sixties or early seventies, write more than ever. In my case, I notice that youthful glow is fading. That won't stop me from writing the poems that time and God grant me, whatever they may be. When you know a true poem is coming, you're full of enthusiasm, you're vibrating, you repeat yourself in every verse. It almost becomes something physical. You pace back and forth like a caged panther. And that, as I said, I'm gradually losing my sense of it.

What are you working on now?

I have about 10 or 12 unpublished poems. That's about half a book. At least mine, which aren't very long. I've been publishing them every 10 years. At this rate, I should have it finished by 2026, but...

How does the author of 'Europe' see the present and future of the continent?

Very disappointed. Twenty years ago, when there was talk of removing the reference to the Judeo-Christian roots from the European Constitution, some of us were already a little suspicious. Then we saw they wanted it to function solely as an economic entity. But not even that anymore. Europe is shooting itself in the foot with the disappearance of large-scale industry and the amount of regulation. What the hell are we doing removing olive trees from Jaén and filling it with plaques? If you deny our common past and what fostered that common past, which is a strong economy, then we're done for. The future of the West, although it may seem untrue to us from here, lies in Hispanic America. In time...